Five Big Obstacles that Weiss Schwarz is Facing

Listen to my story. This may be our last chance.

because work

because i start work again soon

Why would anyone want to platinum FFX Remastered? Why?

Today I want to bring attention to the most important issue that WS faces as a competitive game. That issue is extremely simple – people aren’t regarding the game with a competitive eye. It’s an endemic mindset in the wider WS community (that is, outside of Japan), and it has made the game stagnate to the point where new players are actively told that the game isn’t to be taken seriously. Yes, the game is swingy. It’s very difficult to put up consistent results, there’s no real prize support, the game creeps too fast, etc. There are many reasons for this problem, and I want to address at least some of them. Chances are that a lot of them affect you. There’s no shame in that. Quite a few of them affect me, but I’ll be damned if I don’t try to at least fight the culture.

This is going to be a very opinionated article, one that strikes several chords that people might not like. That being said, I think it is a necessary article. Even if you find yourself disagreeing, please read it to the end, or at least leave a comment about your thoughts. I don’t care how abrasive those thoughts are, this is as close as I’m going to get to a heart-to-heart with the wider WS community.

There are no ulterior motives here. I’m not being paid by Big Kidani. Chemtrails aren’t real. This article is about putting the game’s culture on public display. It’s entirely obvious to a lot of us, but nobody’s really examined it, nor has anyone moved towards condemning it. I’ll be trying to do both, because I care about this game’s competitive lifespan. The game will be around forever and ever because it is the biggest anime cardgame. ChaosTCG, Level Neo and Precious Memories can’t compete. Victory Spark is already out of the race. Nobody actually knows what Crusade is. With Weiss’s longevity assured, I want to push it in a direction where competitive cardgamers can begin to take the game more seriously, and subsequently enjoy it more. Without further ado, words.

1) The game’s target audience is not actually competitive cardgamers.

Magic is a cardgame that is marketed for new players, and one that relies on the strength of its game system to keep people hooked. The game is very well designed and balanced for newer players to learn, and it allows people to play a variety of different styles. It naturally lends itself to interest in competition, because people want to be the best. In Weiss, however, the vast majority of new players are brought in because they are fans of the anime or game series. I’ve advertised at anime conventions. The lines that bring in the most people are ‘Attack on Titan’, ‘Sword Art Online’, ‘Persona 4’ and ‘Fairy Tail’. There’s nothing about competitive worth in my stock salesman spiel, because there isn’t a point in doing so. The spiel changes when I talk to game store owners or interested FNM attendees, but the disparity in interest between the two groups is undeniable. You’re appealing to the passion of anime fans. It’s a super-strong draw.

Honestly speaking, there’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, that is evidently the strength of the game that has allowed it to compete with Magic and Yugioh from a consumership standpoint. Because of that, you naturally get more people who just want to collect and play casually, instead of taking their deck to the limit and play in tournaments with it. Between your typical FNM Magic player and your typical convention-going Angel Beats fan, who is more likely to go deep and improve their cardgaming skills? I think the answer is pretty obvious. Again, there’s nothing wrong with this. People are different, and if you decide you don’t want to play WS in a competitive setting, then I can respect that decision. I have one stipulation, though.

Don’t go telling others that the game is a series of skill-less waifu fights. By that same principle, don’t let anyone tell others this. If you see misinformed crap like this going down, do your darndest to stop it. Casual players will very frequently cast themselves as  the victims in this discussion, citing the competitive players as ‘try-hards’ who don’t have fun. That’s absolute bullshit, and everyone should know it. The term ‘try-hard’ is a ridiculous one in the first place. You’re insulting someone for putting effort into something that you don’t want to put effort into. That’s practically praise. The serious players who get labelled as tierwhores or bandwagoners are often the people with the most passion and drive about the game itself. It’s really not that different from having passion or drive about your favourite anime or VN.

majikoi is really great im not even playing it right now, it's just really great

majikoi is really great
im not even playing it right now, it’s just really great

Yes, you should respect people if they want to keep Weiss as a casual pastime, but you should never, ever let them turn it around and call you out for taking the game seriously.

2) Anime fans have redefined the goal of Weiss Schwarz.

Weiss is now ‘the anime cardgame’. As mentioned before, that’s not actually a bad thing. It brings in more players, and that gives Bushiroad more incentive to print good sets and make more people happy. However, it does come with a lot of baggage – namely, the fact that the majority of new players will be anime fans that have never considered cardgames in the same sentence as ‘competition’. How many times have you seen a request for a deck tier rundown, only for that request to be met with the answer ‘top tier: my waifu, bottom tier: your waifu’? How many times is the next response a picture of popcorn, or someone making a joke about needing more salt for their popcorn? If your answer is zero, then you obviously haven’t been in the relevant Facebook groups for long enough. There is always someone who cries waifu when tiers, matchups and metagames are mentioned, and those people are actively preventing the community from adopting a more competitive mindset. Not only are they making newer players think the game is literally just Fight of Characters: The TCG, but they are discouraging people with actual competitive interest from ever discussing things publicly.

My overall point is not only that people don’t actually regard WS competitively, but that the culture actively promotes and encourages this viewpoint. People aren’t driven to improve, because most of the time, you are reassured that the cushion of your waifu and the fact you are repping your favourite series will take precedence over winning or losing. The fact that WS is a game where ‘any deck can win’ means that you can build a garbage waifu deck and occasionally kill off a meta deck. That concept builds a fallacious win-win scenario, and the game is worse off for it.

The fact that we have fully incorporated this notion of ‘waifu equals win’ has effectively repressed the norm of victory being the ultimate goal we strive for. If you max out your deck or appropriately represent your waifu, then you’ve already accomplished what you set out to accomplish, and winning is no longer relevant. That’s fine, and if you want to keep that as your goal, then I’m fine with that. However, it’s not as if you can’t have both. I have quite a few maxed decks myself, and I play the series I do out of love for them. However, that doesn’t mean I’m not going to try and optimise them. It will take a pretty big culture shock to change any of this, but you can very easily play what you want AND keep a competitive mindset. All we need to do is stop preaching from that accursed bible of waifu glory.

mostly because nobody wants to hear about your waifus

mostly because nobody wants to hear about your waifus

3) People aren’t actively collaborating to get better, and often aren’t attempting to improve at all.

All of this ties into the culture aspect of WS, where the playerbase just isn’t as driven as the MtG or YGO playerbases. Part of this is because there is precious little incentive to win (aside from a trip to Japan, maybe). Part of this is because of all the game’s culture issues mentioned above. Let’s put it in more relatable terms.

Have you ever played a cardgame with the express intention of getting better? Have you slow-rolled it with a friend over your shoulder, questioning anything he finds or offering nuggets of insight? Have you ever played open-hand and discussed the best way to approach an opponent who may or may not have a certain counter or trump? Do you have actual card and metagame discussion in your playgroup WhatsApp or Facebook chat? These are all questions that competitive Magic, Pokemon and Yugioh players can wholeheartedly answer ‘yes’ to. If you answered yes to most of the above questions in WS, let’s go a bit deeper.

Have you properly tested every viable climax combo in your deck in preparation for a specific tournament? Have you ever used a calculator in playtesting? Have you ever held a playtest camp for the week prior to your event? Have you analysed price trends on major buying sites in order to improve your card evaluation? These questions go beyond asking whether you’re trying to improve. They concern the degree of dedication you have to getting better; how much time you are willing to give up to be better at this cardgame. If you answered yes to these questions, you’re probably lying. If you insist on it, then good for you. You’re going the distance that MtG pros go. (Also, calculators are for chumps.)

Take 2015’s American National Champion. I’ve known of him for quite some time prior to him taking that title, and I can tell you he goes the damn distance.  He keeps confoundingly precise statistics that mostly tell you nothing at all, except that he is dedicated and really likes numbers. He took the time to objectify mostly subjective data in order to rank his locals’ players (including himself) in various categories. Speaking of categories, his blog has thematic content in subcategories. Subcategories! But you know what? That just means he cares. You don’t become a Nats Champion by accident. However, what impressed me more than anything else is that he reached out and actively asked for others’ help after the tournament was over. Do you know what this means? It means he hasn’t stopped at winning Nationals. He’s looking at Worlds, and beyond. This is a lesson we can all learn from, and I’m going to get a bit preachy.

Your ability as a cardgamer isn’t just measured in wins or top cuts. The Pokemon players I most respect (and subsequently choose to test with) haven’t actually won anything in years. Some of the best lessons I learned about Magic come from serial EDH players who abhor events. I can’t actually remember the last time Luis Scott-Vargas won a large paper event, but does that cut into the immense respect I have for him? You are always developing skills in life, and cardgames are no different. As long as you approach the game with the full intent of learning and getting better, you will eventually be rewarded. Winning or losing is just an end result, and the process is what’s truly important. Take everything you can from every victory, and take everything you can from every loss. The only difference between them is that victory very occasionally has a trophy attached.

Without more people possessed of a mindset like that, a community will not flourish or grow stronger. It takes several of these like-minded people to transform a locals into a place where everyone grows as a competitive player simply by taking part. It won’t be easy, and it will take a lot of people with a lot of dedication, but it is the only way that the wider community will get better.

you can do truly great things by working together

you can do truly great things by working together

The even more important lesson we can learn here is that collaboration is key. The fastest way to get better is to surround yourself with good players. The strongest Magic pros are never found without a strong testing team alongside them. I dare you to ask the champion of your most recent cardgame regional about their playtesting habits. I guarantee you they test with people they trust to help them get better. If you do not have the fortune to be surrounded by good, interested players, then get online. Join a Skype group or internet forum. I am blessed with both a competitive playgroup and competitive online groups that I can rebound ideas off. The most important aspect of collaboration, however, relates to a key tenant of life. You will do better at things you enjoy. I’ve made great friends through cardgaming, and it is because of these friends that I continue to love cardgaming, and continue aspiring to become better. Friends make things a lot more fun, and if you find things fun, you will get better quickly. If you are serious about getting better at WS, I strongly suggest you find yourself a good community to playtest with. The internet is a marvelous tool.

4) The official sanctioned format fails to appropriately show skill disparity or promote competition.

This is a big one. I just spieled on about how winning and losing shouldn’t be regarded as the only measure of skill, but it is definitely the easiest measure of ‘skill’. Unfortunately, we have an utterly absurd tournament format. It is the source of a lot of soul-crushing woe – in TCGs, people who make the correct plays can very easily be punished by a bad streak of luck. This is simply the nature of cardgames. However, a system where you have another roll of the dice will give you a chance to redeem yourself; a chance to let skill carry you to a win. This is the multi-game Swiss format. This is Best-of-3. This is how almost every other cardgame does it.

In this day and age, there is precious little reason for a TCG to have a best-of-1 Swiss format. I’ve discussed this before, but all this does is enhance the effect of bad luck when it happens, and it can happen very frequently in Bushiroad cardgames. If you want to move towards a format more representative of skill, then you absolutely need to push towards either more Swiss rounds, or a best-of-2/3 tournament format. Japan is absolutely incorrect in their decision to make this game Bo1, and is even more incorrect for using a goddamned lottery to decide which X-1 players make it into cut. It’s a goddamned joke.

There’s a reason I’m not berating Bushiroad for not providing cash or credit incentive in their tournaments. That’s a key element of what caused Magic and Yugioh to expand so violently, but I still believe each company has the right to do what they want with their game in the broader sense. Bushiroad has gone on the record saying that they never want their games to be the player’s sole source of revenue, and I understand that they don’t want it to be about money. That does not mean they can omit such a key competitive element of an RNG-centric game. You can’t even invoke the Sakurai defence of ‘I don’t want the game to be competitive’, because Bushiroad goes out of their way to fly people from around the world to an international finals event. If they don’t improve their competitive format, they will not advance the game’s competitive element in any significant way. They’re doing a disservice to themselves, and to their players.

Yes, I understand logistics are an issue. I could totally go off at Bushiroad for not using resources properly. Buddyfight is floundering, Victory Spark literally died, Weiss Schwarz is losing ground in Asia, and yet they still choose to develop Luck & Logic in an attempt to steal some of the pie Force of Will just managed to get its hands on. For the sake of discussion, I’m not going to talk about any of that, and instead go with the notion that logistics are indeed an issue. Even with that in mind, you should always be building the format around your game. Weiss is a game with an incredible amount of shortcutting potential anyway, and the fact that we still have defenders of the whole ‘trigger in stock = missed timing’ idea just shows spartan inflexibility that no reasonable judge of any other cardgame would ever entertain. The fact that we still have people willing to shark and win games off judge penalties is arguably a sign of competitive immaturity. I would argue this viewpoint in any cardgame, not just Weiss. Winning by technicality is less interesting, less fun, and less thrilling than winning on merit. I get that winning is winning, but grant me my little moral soapbox, ok?

Weiss needs to actually see some significant change. I’m very aware this post won’t do a lot of good, given we need help from the men upstairs for anything to happen. To that end, a suggestion. A two-game format could very easily be implemented by pushing the time limit up to 50 minutes, awarding 3 points for a 2-0, 1 point for a 1-0 or 1-1, and no points for 0-2. Going to time would need to see some revision, but baby steps first. I see absolutely no reason why something like this shouldn’t be at least trialled, because the current system is laughable. Time concerns are a thing, but being able to play quickly is a major skill in TCGs, a skill by which the fruits of playtesting, shortcutting and appropriate metagaming can all be properly exhibited.

5) There isn’t enough community discussion or content.

Magic, Yugioh and even newer games like Netrunner and DBZ all have strategic analyses and articles pumped out by the fistful. Weiss has very few of these articles period, and therein lies the issue. It takes a very motivated community to put out insightful discussion, and Weiss has neither the critical mass of content creators, nor the motivation in the community. There just aren’t many sites discussing WS. A lot of the current dedicated sites are almost entirely built on silly memes and jokes-of-the-week originating from Foreign. Confusingly, some of the best content is in some of these silly meme sites. I’m half amused  that one of my favourite WS articles was written entirely in all caps.

shitty memes need to be used in moderation

memes should be the icing, not the cake base

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not condemning any of the current content creators. A lot of these sites do put in a lot of effort, and for that they already have my respect and gratitude. While I might not agree with how they write articles, sites like 9thcx regularly and actively put out content covering topping decklists, exposing the general playerbase to cool builds they might not have considered. Sadly, that’s the majority of what they do. Yes, they occasionally have deckbuilding articles, and yes, they put out a fantastic article about being wrong, but a significant proportion of content they put out is literally just decklists, often not puzzling over specific card counts and basically never talking about other excluded options. In their defence, they can’t exactly tap into the mind of the deck creator. They didn’t build the decks, and as such their articles don’t teach you anything about deckbuilding intentions or metagame choices, and barely manage teach you about the deck itself. They are creating content, but I don’t think it’s the content we need.

There are equivalents to this in the MtG community – Eric Froelich’s Deck of the Day is one such example. It’s literally just listing a deck that did well in a recent event or online league, followed by a ‘well this sure is a cool deck maybe you should build it’. I’m not much for these articles, but he gets a free pass because his stuff is published alongside excellent content, and because he specifically delves into reasons why it might be a good play for your next event. Weiss keeps up with the filler decklist articles because this is an easy thing to do, but it sorely lacks in-depth stuff. The game also has a woeful shortage of content that covers relevant topics concerning the game or metagame at large, as opposed to the card analysis or specific decks. I am very, very aware that a major part of this stems from a general lack of motivation. There are precious few sponsored sites that put out good content (in fact, 9th CX is literally the only site falling into this category). It’s a fact of life that every consistently good site with content will eventually move towards either a subscription package, or have a sponsor to cover costs and provide incentives. There’s already a site trying to do that with English WS (and DBZ). WS simply hasn’t developed far enough for any major sponsor to even consider that. Couple that with the culture that my first 4 article points created, and you have a recipe for a really apathetic community when it comes to discussion-generating content. It’s at the point where I wouldn’t be able to blame anyone for this, even if I wanted to.

That being said, you have to start somewhere. The solution is simple, really. Just get out there and create content. This doesn’t have to be in the form of articles like this one. Stirring up discussion on internet forums, posting pointed questions about deckbuilding nuances on Reddit, or even just discussions over dinner with your playgroup. Literally any content that makes you think about the game as a whole will help, because you start thinking more, and when you start thinking more, you get better quicker. Any discussion or thought-provoking topic is fine, no matter how stupid the question might seem. Nobody has expectations for what you talk or write about. The most important thing is that you start thinking and discussing more.

Do you want to know who benefits the most from my deck analysis articles? Me. I wager that I gained more from my Execution deck article than anyone else who read it. While I definitely want to put out articles for the general public, I’m not going to waste my time writing about things that I don’t think I can benefit from. As someone who isn’t paid to create content, I post sporadically and jump from topic to topic, but my main goal is to write articles that can help stimulate the community into a more competitive environment. I really, really like Weiss Schwarz as a cardgame, and if I can make the community more willing to accommodate in-depth discussion, then I get to talk about one of my favourite cardgames more, and that’s great. That is literally my entire motivation.

On that note, I’ve whined enough for one day. If anyone at all takes something from this article and goes on to enjoy the competitive aspect of Weiss Schwarz, then I can consider this article a job well done.

May your opponents always eat those 5s.

About lycheepunnet

the victim in an abusive relationship with cardboard
This entry was posted in Ramblings, srs, Strategy, tears and tagged , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

36 Responses to Five Big Obstacles that Weiss Schwarz is Facing

  1. SimonFaust says:

    Oh my god, thank the lord there is another. Thank you for this article. You have accurately hit the nail on the head for each gripe I have with Bushiroad and this community. I will defiantly attempted to make an impact in my local community at the least.

  2. Kite says:

    Thank you for addressing this situation as this is something that I have been wondering on how to deal with as well. I think I come from the same point of view as you do as I test a lot with my playgroup. I do want Weiss to become a more competitive game and I think the first thing to do would be changing the outlook of the game and the tournament format. I am going to test some things at my locals this week to see if the best of 2 format that you mentioned is viable.

  3. SnoopLion says:

    Dayum right, son! Weiss is the best card game ever! 420~!

  4. ronelm2000 says:

    Like you said, it’s probably just laziness from the players. Weiss Schwarz players come from an anime culture, and you should know very well the costs of sticking to that culture. That being said, I think that only Weiss Schwarz is the anime TCG that can exceed this culture barrier, particularly because of posts like this.

    PS: I am so not thinking of Divergent. /s

  5. Team Tears says:

    [img]http://i.imgur.com/Sq0jjDg.gif[/img]

    Good to know there is someone out there willing to give a crap about this game.
    I do pity Bushiroad’s stance, this game could really take off if they just let it 🙁

    For me another big issue of the game is not having a draft format, that two pack thing is just ridiculous.

  6. Skarfang81 says:

    I completely agree with points 4 and 5, especially point 4 and I think this is where the main focus needs to go in for WS.

    At local Friday fun nights or whatever you have in your area we all dont need to be all “why so serious.” I have waifu decks built in mass and I love playing them. I will never begrudge another player for playing them. Someone putting passion into their deck and hobby is a great thing and if your a player like me who doesnt particularly care about winning (the last event we had in my area I played Lucky Star Twins) you do what brings your fun to the game.

    But in saying that is should the competitive tournament format be the same? I think it shouldn’t and needs to be shaped up, and I agree a best 2 out of 3 format for rounds is a good start. I know when we have local events we always have our finals as best 2 out of 3 (and its perfect for finals games), but honestly every round should be like that.

    Its hard to articulate the right words, but even in tournament situations I dont feel the game (WS) makes me want to bring what I consider the strongest deck in the format all the time – it makes me want to play what I want. This isnt necessarily a bad thing (and I wouldnt never belittle someone who just really wants to Nico Nico Ni his way through the tournament), but I never played MTG like that when I was a (albeit only lvl 1) Pro player in a competitive tournament setting. MTG always made me analyse the format meticulously and make me decide what deck I was playing best on what I believed was the best deck that would make me win, then search for that piece of tech that would next level it. Did I want to take that deck to the day? Probably not. But it was the right choice whether I wanted to play it or not.

    Do I want WS to make me want to do that in tournaments? Cant say 100% that I do but the current competitive format doesn’t make me want to bring my A game. Maybe occasionally the incentive should be there to make me want to play for Sheep stations.

    Just my 5 cents.

  7. Sven Bootcamp says:

    A ´must read`for every W/S player. Spread the word!

  8. Robostrike says:

    TL;DR: We build the same deck, share the same stories… all it comes down to is luck at the end and nothing more so we stop discussing viable topics about it.

    There’s the issue of ‘BSR keeps making the same card from another series’ cliche. Discussion then favours not of card type but rather for consistency and the luck factor simply because everyone’s deck plays the same. We’ve streamlined the ability to make decks based on abilities and level. In all other card games, the basis of good plays are based on how the hand is maintained of playful cards through a vast majority of cards. Weiss has the opposite effect: more cards with various abilities viable to keep field alive, hand fixed, climax secured still in deck to cancel are all things important. The greatest and least explored area is the climax manipulation strategies with cards in deck. No one plays enough to care because of how much uncertainty it brings and inconsistencies as slots dedicated could have been placed elsewhere.

    We also are thriving in a very salty community. Anything we write will be bashed against and so it favours us not to write about it and keep it to ourselves. You may acknowledge the world is round but everyone else thinks it’s flat.

    We will never now let this down because of the progressively aggressive statements by Lord Borden that further our ideals that this is okay. The fact leisure and hilarious comments made in recent times with WGP Japan regionals flaring through chats makes it even harder to make marginally comprehensible strategy discussion.

  9. Turkeymccoolray says:

    I love this article, I am also a disgruntled player that has been around for a while. I started weiss over three years ago with Madoka Heal Loop and couldn’t believe that a game that was universally thought of as completely casual could be so technical. I used to constantly post on reddit and the facebook groups trying to improve and help other players get better. However over a year ago I noticed a growing trend where folks like me were getting ignored and even pushed out of these communities. I saw them radically change and slowly I completely gave up on the online community. Now that I know there are others like me, I am going to try and help spread the word once again.

  10. Tabbune says:

    Yes, I think this is a thing, not that I’m too much into creating a more competitive environment.

    We need Weiss Schwarz articles like the ones on MTGDaily. People who understand the game actually teaching others how to understand the game.

    (Personally, I blame it on them putting the idols (LL!, Im@s (:CG)) in the game. My whole carrier is me just trying to beat Love Live.)

  11. soyo says:

    Thanks, reading this have returned my reasons for this game (and its community).

    I’ll try what i can do.

  12. Koga sagara says:

    its interesting BUT the writer is forgeting how WS works, for explample, there is no “meta” they are trying to keep the game the most freely possible, not like yo gi oh “build what we said or you cant win” for magic the system “me magic get 4 expansions every year and all before that are crap, you must buy again to keep on the competitive mode OR you can face the most older and broken card in non competitive tounaments”

    “i can build a waifu deck and it can be played in tounaments” that fun! be able to build almost whatever deck i want and be able to win! the only thing a player needs is skill. taking the way “meta game is fun” its not fun for every one just for a few high lord, again lets check yu gi oh the last YCS on my country was from 200 players from all the continent 60% necroz 20% Qliphort 10 burning abyss and 10% mixed, now let check the top 16:

    10 Nekroz Decks

    2 Shaddoll Decks

    1 Tellarknight Decks

    1 Burning Abyss Decks

    1 Qliphort Decks

    1 Volcanic Deck

    if the meta game idea will be port to WS what will happend?

    10 SAO

    2 Miku

    1 KLK

    1 Love live

    1 Log ho

    1 shingeki

    what is bad from this? as you know, every tittle as their won booster and some time it will never re printed, what happens with that? if the meta game is SAO and his longevity in the meta game will be for 3 to 6 months another tittle more broken than sao has to kate his place, every season willbe a deck more broken than the last one, in some point the game will be so broken than for new players will have to invest a lot money in a prebuilt by buying deck Booster packs is irrelevant if not in large quantities, as companies like Konami reduce the number of useful cards “meta game” drastically, forcing the player to purchase a cardboard full and you do not leave even one card of looking (has already passed)

    this buisness model its not fun to players, personally i quit yugi
    because it became a game where if I do not play what’s on the meta will not be able to win and I like the archetypes can not play because game are not the meta, quote from a friend “if i cant play my fortune lady deck to fight and win what the fu** im doing here? this is not fun at all”

    there is a competitive in WS but because the nature of the game its very hard to say wich one is here for competitive and witch one is for fun (i want both)

    quote from the article ” If you max out your deck or appropriately represent your waifu, then you’ve already accomplished what you set out to accomplish, and winning is no longer relevant” FALSE my friend! i run a store here in my country colombia and the most agressive fights are from the waifu tournaments (
    special tournament in which each player can only play with a deck of a single character in the cards) i love play with my hatsune miu deck in tounaments, beat every oens deck with miku and only miku but i love my other decks too SAO happy family asuna, kirito and yui, my prisma illya loli lovely, my kancolle submarine sexyness, and i want all my deck be able to beat the most heavy deck all must be competitive and every one thinks the same people who has 25 or more decks are so hapy to build more decks for sale or for them but they bot a special deck to use in case the shi* goes serious, there are people who build one deck for some time because that kind of people want get 100% tuned the deck first before build another, and quone from a customer “when i get my deck fully operational for tournaments i will make my other favorite girls deck”

    quote from hte article “All the point 3”

    yes!! some times all players just sit and talk how to improve therir decks make crazy combos, have you ever seen a red deck generating stock like a green one? a friend did that and that deck is contantly recovering and searching characters from the wating room and from the deck, its crazy! like a yugioh deck in weiss!! i got a low cost deck i called the “low budget war” all the deck is focused int not use the stock to be able in lv 2 o make to the enemy massive damage in characters and clock, we contantly make changes, create new build from scratch of the decks rummors are big here when a deck wins flawless a tounament everybody try to find how and how to beat them! (you may be have to visit here ^^)

    you take for explample pokemon tcg, they use the same model as magic, i play for a year pokemon happy with my fire deck, ninetails and typhlosion ex as my most stronger cards but when the jude said me (that was when i was just a tcg player) “you cant play any more with that deck, you have to buy more to build another one” what?! why?   “because the format change”

    for the last part of the point 3, every player new and old every time i push them foward to be competitive “you can win, you only need practice an lear how to make your own deck at your stile in a way to be able to beat every one”

    the point 4 its very salty, but i will try my bet to clarify to you int he most respectful way,

    have you ever check why WS is like that? what happens if the swiss format was best of 3? every set takes too much time, playing best of 3 will make every match will be for 2 hours, more if the players has a very heavy decks.

    the third paragraph of Item 4 is totally false, you should not make these accusations without talking to people inside Bushiroad its target WS it is that the game fun for everyone, there supuestoq ue competitive but not “meta game” and, money for games? thats a thign what makes the games become “fun” to be “a war” how many thiefs are in yugioh, magic or pokemon? how many people were stab or killed for a card? you should be documented in this first, before you say things like that, this is a serious issue in which Bushiroad has maintained a clear position where they know that if they allow that, many toxic players in other games will come, this is not a key component of a TCG its the ”
    the Apple of discord” of the older TCGs, mo money prize its fine,
    I personally prefer it to be as it has been running lately in yugioh in my country, consoles and sealed produto, special playmat, deck special box, if the player decides to sell something, it is his problem and not cause a problem in the game, money makes crazy the people, do not bring ideas that can affect the community please.

    point 5

    you are making it in this moment my friend, this article is improving the comunyty in some way, the content creator are the people who make what of are asking.

    you want to see the deck of the day and things smililar, why dont you do that? you can, personally I prefer not to read such articles decks of others, I prefer to build my deck to my taste and learn from my mistakes after each game, but many people do this with the mindset that the “net decking” is how to play a TCG it hopefully works for them, there are several players here copying internet lists of those WS articles, it is funny how they do not know how it works, let alone plays secret and combos.

    i dont get it, are you complaing about the lack of “deck of the day” articles but you dont want to make tem? im sorry but that sound like “lazy guy” dont complain an JUST DO IT, DOOOOOIIIIIT, want to hel the comunity? DOOOOIT, less complaining more contributions to the community (that was a little joke from what i seen here, a little bit lazy.

    To conclude, I respect your complaints but reaffirmed my opinion as a player and organizer refuting anyway (fairy odd parents joke)

    for all, remember that this is another game, not a clone of yugi, magic or pokemon, here even a sleeves are important, we share more in other games, we discussed waifus, series, game rules, the game in general, WS is a game where I have seen the need to improve skills, rather than having expensive cards with 0 ability (yes, I’m talking to you deck necroz)

    I’ve seen players with great ability in other TCGs never won winning WS and I have also seen those who call themselves professionals yugioh lose shameful in WS.

    the first thing I tell a new player “there is no meta game, your skill will tell you how to build your deck and how to play it, we can advise but the final descición is yours and which oversees winning is you, not their cards ”

    good day sir, i wish to talk with you some time   you have some interesting pints and some ideas can be implemented in the game. have a nice day

    • I find it hard to believe there isn’t a meta. The definition of a “meta” is what is being played. Just like M:tG, some cards in sets are better against some sets and worse against some sets. The dominant force(s) that are at play in a tournament setting change what kind of cards need to be in decks to be successful.

      • ethebubbeth says:

        There is definitely a general meta. This is why you see the same series in the top 3 of various WGP events.

        You also have to consider your local meta. My Fate Rider deck tends to work pretty well at one shop near me, and it absolutely atrocious at another because of the different series and strategies employed by the disparate player bases.

        Metagames tend to get more homogenous in more competitive environments, as people figure out what decks have the advantage, spikes will gravitate toward them. In less competitive environments, people play with the cards they have and focus less on what wins. That is when you end up with everyone playing a different deck.

  13. TheTerrorOfKnowingWhatThisWorldIsAbout says:

    This article is ultimately targeting an audience that isn’t the audience it intends to reach and is addressing a problem that those with said problem are aware of and accepting of. Or so I find.

    If you’re a worse player you’ll find yourself losing most of your games – and the amount of time to invest into a card game instead of a worthwhile profession or hobby that can be converted into social standing, salary and such while being competitive is not worth it. It’s a simple cost benefit where te marginal benefit is not worth the cost if you’re a somewhat functional and successful human being. That’s the sad reality and truth that most anime watchers forget and lack.

    If there are people who have the time, and freedom and don’t because they don’t want to and don’t have a good reason – they’re wasteful existences to begin with. If you’re not living for things you enjoy or your profession – you’re living for someone else – you’re not being useful to society or yourself.

    I honestly think this issue isn’t one of mindset or about perceptions of Weiss, it’s more an issue of the way people and youth of today are dealing with things and it’s pitiful.

  14. Zelos says:

    I really have to say that I love your blog and your content
    I’m very happy that you go through new sets and discuss what they bring on YouTube

    I was one of those that bought this game really doesn’t have much skill before
    But from reading your blog I really wanted to improve
    I am from the same local that the nats champion is from
    Our local is extremely relaxed and our meta is a mess of everything
    We also have the luxury of multiple locals and each local have different skill level and different meta

    I’m trying to get better after reading your content
    Instead of complaining about luck and sack
    I have the luxury of liking a few series which I believe can do well atm
    Back two months ago I didn’t and I was extremely unhappy
    But now I feel like I can and have a good Chance to learn and compete
    I’m just posting to show support and appreciate your content and wish more people would make content like you do

  15. weiss memes saved anime tho

  16. tyw says:

    Weiss Schwarz wasn’t created to be a competitive card game, but entertainment card game. it’s core game play mechanic reflects so. i am not talking about those heal loops, or those abilities, yea looks cool and “technical”, i am talking about the very core basic, ground level game play mechanic, where you turn your things side way, and your opponent practically have to accept damage, that pushes the game towards the end.

    the game core mechanic arbitrary pushes the game forward with this mechanic, is my greatest concern, and my basis of why this game is unfit and unsound as a competitive game.

    Hence, no matter how high the skill ceiling is, how skillful you are, your worse enemy is always the game mechanics.

    To me, WS is unfit, and unsound mechanically to be taken serious, and that’s the fundamental (hidden) problem to the majority of community, and why people tend to take this into other direction i.e. character tcg, waifu war whatever.

    • And this is one of the problems addressed here. Weiss Schwarz is a skill-based game, but it utilizes skills that very little other card games address. Playing the person is much more important at some level than playing the cards, and legally manipulating luck is a much more common skill than in any other card game.

      • ronelm2000 says:

        > legally manipulating luck
        Hmm, I wonder what other game does this?

        Reach Mahjong perhaps?

        • Even Riichi Mahjong doesn’t do it to the level that Weiss does. Riichi doesn’t have anything like rearranging the next three tiles, or sending a tile that was discarded to the mountain instead, etc.

          • ronelm2000 says:

            Exactly. There is more luck control on WS, yet it’s not more skill-based than mahjong of all things?

  17. SanShokuGinji says:

    This is a great read and I agree completely. The main problem is that it isn’t viable from a time standpoint to run a bo3 tournament of a game where each round usually gets fully played out and takes 20-30 minutes on average (more if you don’t play quickly and/or when alt text frequently needs to be clarified). It requires everybody to be at a high level of fast-play when some people simply might prefer to play slowly and carefully consider their options/gather information before making their own plays.

    • cele says:

      I feel like simply changing the finals or top 16/8 or something to bo3 would already help a lot

      and that sounds very feasible in the timeframe, especially when you are competing at something like nats a certain speed of playing can be presumed

  18. Blake says:

    I actually joined WS only because the game was fun, at the time I join there was not sets that I liked that were in print. I ended up playing Nisekoi throughout the entire summer due to my budget but the odd thing is that I hate Nisekoi the show, I just liked the way the deck plays. I came from the competitive side of yugioh mainly because I have a friend who is super into madoka and because of the rising cost of being competitive in yugioh, WS is easier to build and play verity of different decks without paying a fortune. Entering into the WS community was extremely weird for me due to being used to the yugioh one, the lack of trade in insight about decks an architypes that don’t have your wiffu in and into the competitive side at first pushed me away. Due to some of the people in the community that are really into the game I stayed, along with due to work and school schedules the friend who brought me in and I had 6 hours of free time every other day and played non stop for those 6 hours discussing stuff about the game with each other. I am thankful for your article.

    FYI I found your article from the Texas DFW WS community Facebook group

  19. Joseph Feeney says:

    I’d say one problem I don’t believe was covered in the article is the RNG reliance of Weiss as a game, if you damage check climaxes you win if you don’t you lose. That being said it doesn’t make the game very appealing on a competitive level if a person can buy two starter decks shuffle them together and win a regional vs designed and developed decks just because they can damage check a climax.

    I agree with many of your points, but this game allows you to play decks centered around anime and waifus you like, if we take it down the magic, Yu-gi-oh, etc road then you don’t get to do that, you play refined meta decks in tournies or you don’t play. Also many thanks to Bushiroad for keeping cash prizes out of this game, let’s not spoil this game with the win or die attitude that permeates aspects of some other popular card games.

  20. Hewigkeyt says:

    Once again, I share your opinion, but I think that something is missing.

    If so much people now tend to believe that the game isn’t meant to be competitive, and spread the word to newer players, I think there is a reason, and that reason is the present metagame. At first, WS wasn’t really meta, with just better and worse series, but anyone could play what they liked and still stand a chance, because that’s how the game was designed: just enough luck involved to keep the game fun without denying the player’s skill.

    But what about now ? The game has progressively shifted into a meta with strong finishers. I had no problem with that, since it was still easy to discern a player who was drawing and playing their finishers at random, and an experienced one who managed their ressources to be able to play all out at the appropriate time.

    The real issue appeared with the way too strong finishers (Musashi, Akagi at first and now Yami tier) along with +1soul cx combo at level 1. When you reach level 1 all meta decks run a plus combo with a 1s/1k cx. The issue is that you often reach level 1 with your first deck, i.e. with a really bad compression, so you can just hope to cancel and not skip a level when your opponent plays their combo. Of course, people could always play a cx at level 1, but before the meta combos, players were loosing ressources in some way (card in hand or stock to get a character back…). Now they can just rush and see their opponent taking most of the damage because their deck isn’t compressed at all, and in the same time gather the endgame finishers.

    Tl;dr the games are really quick because both players play soul rush at level 1/2 and that leads to a stupid level 3 where players play their finishers and the luckiest wins. Because let’s be honest, if you’re 3/0 and your opponent plays 3 yami, even if you managed to get 8 cx in 20 cards (which rarely happens) odds to get OTK are still huge.

    When I started playing WS, the “meta” was the healing one. The games lasted quite a bit, but the players had to think all the way long to manage their ressources the best way they could, and I do believe the game was more skilled, and more enjoyable.

    If people want to play waifu wars, I can’t blame them (even if I myself don’t), because it’s certainly more intersting than building and playing TLR vs blue GFB.

  21. Pingback: Competitive vs Casual | team tears

  22. Pingback: hi | saltartonline

  23. Pingback: Competitive Weiss and you: Making the choice (An appeal to the community) | Weiss and Chill

Leave a Reply to StatisticsArtOnline Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *